Ladybug
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| 11-03-2010 05:11 AM |
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Thanks all. Just thought I would give you a little update on Joey.
We are still going! Joey is doing ok, bless him. He is just so good considering all he has been through! He still has no interest in trying to eat for himself. I have Harrisons Recovery Formula now, which he seems to take well, I was quite suprised to be honest thought he would hate it! He has about 30-40ml 5 times a day. He is drinking water himself too. I set him up a new cage yesterday which is not as big as his usual one, but bigger than the travel cage and he seems quite happy in there and I know he is safe, it has a baby quilt on the bottom incase of falls, but so far so good. Last night I went to bed for the first time since last friday lol. Well I left him for 6 hours and felt awful, but he was ok and waiting for his morning feed when I came down!
He seems to be putting the weight back on, you can feel the difference when you hold him and is back up to 432g, though still looks very thin.
The thing that is really concerning me at the moment is he seems to flick/shake his head a lot, it started about 2 nights ago, but is now happening a lot. Its like he cant control it. He is also quite restless, over preening and pulling a few feathers mainly from his crop area and not sleeping much. So maybe the being restless is just like an over tired child. I am not sure.
Also when I give him the one kind of medication he seems to go a bit funny, so I have phoned the vet this morning to ask about all this. I dont want to take him in as he is improving so much and dont want to stress him any more than I have to, but thought I would ask anyway. I am waiting to hear back from her!
Speak Soon
Michelle
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kerryh33
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Mandy
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| 11-03-2010 06:20 AM |
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Sheila will confirm this if you speak to her, but Im fairly sure that head flicking etc can be another symptom of pdd. That is the neurological side of the disease.  |
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Margy
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| 11-03-2010 01:22 PM |
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But it coud also be an ear infection, or the medicine doesn't agree with him?
I'm so glad he's improved for you though, give him a big kiss and a cuddle from me! |
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Ladybug
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| 12-03-2010 01:00 PM |
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Hello
Well its a week today I have had little Joey home 
I would like to think it was an ear infection, but if it was wouldnt the antibiotics have helped with it a little bit? I cant see any fluid etc near his ears. He has the last dose of antibiotics this evening, he has been on them 10 days. I am convinced he is having some kind of reaction to the medicine they gave me to clear him out (metoclopramide), as it seems he has a funny moment not long after I have given it to him. I spoke to the vet, thought it better to phone as not to stress Joey out anymore by taking him in again. (not my usual one Mark Evans) and he is 95% sure it is PDD and that these are the beginning of of neurological problems cause by the virus attacking the nervous system. Joey is itching and picking feathers an awful lot as well and he said these are symptoms too. As far as the medicine goes the guy wasnt very helpful to be honest. He said I could stop it, but that wouldnt help clear his system. So I wont. He said I could up the dose of Celebrex a little and see if that helps, but then didnt tell me how much. Other than that he said there wasnt much else we could do other than give him some Vetark Avimix, which may or may not help a little.
Joey is rather agitated today, he is so tired bless him as he cant sleep with the head flicking, as soon as he tries his head flicks and he is awake again. I dont think I have actually seen him have a rest or a sleep since weds. He doesnt seem to know what to do with himself. But saying that, a fair few times today I have seen him playing with his favourite cotton rope and wood toy in his new cage. So thats good I suppose! He seems ok in himself. He still wants cuddles and to spend time with me and out of the cage and knows when its feeding time when I walk towards the cage with his blanket and bowl of formula, he clambers onto the perch by the door. I think he is getting used to that now. He is still on 5 feeds a day of Harrisons Recovery Formula which I sometimes put a little honey or apple juice etc in and not interested in trying anything for himself not even on a spoon.
He is putting on weight. But seems to be putting it on too fast. I think that it must be accumulating in his stomach somehow, even though he is taking meds to help clear it (the one that makes him funny). This am before the first feeding he was 444g, I will weigh him this evening before the last feed, then again in the morning. I dont think it is possible to have actually put on 60+g in 4 days, but then I dont know much about birds putting on weight and at what rate they put it on. He has a little pot belly now, and feels like a brick when you pick him up compared to last week! He is a little unsteady and clumsy when walking and climbing around, but seems absolutely fine on his perches.
Well all I can do is see how we go over the weekend. Fingers crossed it will be a better weekend than last. Its quite scary not having the Avian vet on hand to help on the weekends if needed. I have made an appointment again to see Mark Evans on Monday morning if he needs to just in case.
On a brighter note - my Timneh Spike just has worst taste in music!! He hasnt stopped bopping and dancing along to this eurovision song contest programme that my daughter is watching. Its making us all laugh! He is such a funny little thing.
Will keep you updated on little Joey! He is 20 weeks old on Sunday.
Michelle, Joey and Spike
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Scarlett
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| 12-03-2010 01:19 PM |
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I think you have done/are doing everything I would of done.
Nobody really knows the truth about PDD, even the vets admit that nothing is certain with this condition, and every bird is individual.
All you can do is take each day as it comes, I think Joey is an amazing little guy to stilll be here today after all he has been through.
Hopefully Monday will bring more help from Mark Evans, or advice at least.
I have never heard of a bird not sleeping through PDD, maybe someone on the forum will of had experience of this?
Bless Spike, he must feel very left out to feel the need to dance to Eurovision!! Give them both a love from us.
Scarlett x |
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Our Flock.......
Oliver-Greenwing Macaw
River and Diesel-Harlequin Macaws
Maxwell and Molly-Scarlet Macaws
Matilda and Dylan-Blue and Gold Macaws
Phoebe-Catalina Macaw
Harley and Lucas-Severe Macaws
www.scarlettsparrotessentials.co.uk |
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Ladybug
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| 12-03-2010 02:15 PM |
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Thanks Scarlett.
I just want to know that I have done and am doing all I can to help him, and make him as comfortable and happy as possible. I have to give him the best chance I can. But Yep he is defintely amazing, having been through so much so quickly and being so young. My special little fella. I just so wish that the vets could give me more definate answers, there are too many dont knows and maybes. I wish more was actually known about PDD, it might make it a little easier.
Michelle
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Helen W
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| 12-03-2010 02:19 PM |
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Michelle,
Metoclopramide is also used in humans - it stimulates gastric emptying. (I'm a doctor, so am aware of its use.) A well recognised side effect in people is 'dystonic reactions'. These include facial and other muscle spasms. They are more common in the young and old and are said to subside 24 hours after stopping the drug. I don't know if it can cause similar reactions in birds but it may well be chasing further with your avian vet. I don't know if there's an alternative he could try but it is possible that you may be right about it affecting Joey. Poor little fella definitely needs his rest. Give him a gentle hug x |
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Scarlett
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| 12-03-2010 11:42 PM |
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That is very interesting to hear Helen. Sounds exactly what Joey is experiencing, and with him being so young.......very interesting.
I wonder what would happen if the drug was stopped?
Scarlett |
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Our Flock.......
Oliver-Greenwing Macaw
River and Diesel-Harlequin Macaws
Maxwell and Molly-Scarlet Macaws
Matilda and Dylan-Blue and Gold Macaws
Phoebe-Catalina Macaw
Harley and Lucas-Severe Macaws
www.scarlettsparrotessentials.co.uk |
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Mandy
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| 13-03-2010 03:12 AM |
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If the drug is stopped the outlook is very grim There is no cure for PDD, but the Celebrex keeps the inflammation down. Definately best to speak to your vet though, see what they suggest. There may be another medication they can give to help him with the head movements. So sorry you are h aving to go through this, I am always thinking of you and the little guy. xxx |
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Scarlett
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| 13-03-2010 03:35 AM |
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It`s not the Celebrex causing the problem, it`s the Metoclopromide.
I think the vet was hoping to stop that sooner or later anyway and just keep Joey on the Celebrex. I`m sure Michelle will be on here to make sure I`m right in what I`ve said, it`s been a long week with poor Joey so I get a little confused as to which bit happened and were said and when!! |
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Our Flock.......
Oliver-Greenwing Macaw
River and Diesel-Harlequin Macaws
Maxwell and Molly-Scarlet Macaws
Matilda and Dylan-Blue and Gold Macaws
Phoebe-Catalina Macaw
Harley and Lucas-Severe Macaws
www.scarlettsparrotessentials.co.uk |
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Helen W
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| 13-03-2010 04:21 AM |
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Metoclopramide is the one associated with twitches and muscle spasms in humans.
Celebrex (also known as Celecoxib) is a completely different drug, as Mandy says, is anti-inflammatory and has a different side effect profile. You do need to check with your vet before altering anything Michelle but, since you think he has problems with the Metoclopramide and the fact it has well recognised side effects (admittedly in people) that you describe, it would be worth checking if there is an alternative. Obviously you want to give Joey the best chance but you also want to ensure QUALITY of life and if he can't sleep, he'll be a very sorry little boy.
PM me if you think I can help any further.
Love to you and Joey x |
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Mandy
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| 13-03-2010 05:28 AM |
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Aaah sorry yeah - The Celebrex must be continued, but the other I have no idea, definately check with the vet, he is the only one who can really advise for sure. Hoping he's managing to get some sleep now? |
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Ladybug
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| 14-03-2010 01:44 PM |
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Hello all, Yes it is the metoclopramide that I think is making him funny. I gave it to him this morning, but have not done since, and will double check with the vet in the morning. See if maybe there is an alternative. Thank you very much Helen for posting. Its very interesting that the side effects in humans are very similar to what Joey seems to be experiencing. Surely birds have side effects too, though none were actually mentioned to me at the time. I will definately ask tomorrow though. Oh yes I will definately keep going with the Celebrex, yesterday I increased the dose from 0.4ml to 0.5ml, it was just the Metocloparmide that I am a bit iffy about. What are the human side effects to Celebrex? I wonder if they are also similar in birds? The vet mentioned that it wasn't licensed to treat birds but they have seen encouraging results with the use of it over the last few years. Well sadly little Joey has not been too good today. He is still head flicking. Today he has hardly pooped, and I think the food must be accumulating in his tummy as it is huge and rests on the perch when he is sitting down. He hasn't got much balance, and can hardly step up onto my hand, though he is still sat on his perch. His neck seems to be sticking out and he leans forward with his head up in an S shape, which makes him look like a duck on a pond. He has been sick throughout the day, it goes everywhere, and by the time I clear up and F10 everything he has done it again. He has given up drinking water, today I have been syringing cooled boiled water into his beak. Its hard to know what to do for the best. I dont know if I am making him worse by feeding him, yet I can't let him starve. I just dont know what to do. I have been feeding him little and often. (Thankyou Scarlett!) He seems to be making little sneezing noises too. There is no Avian vet available on the weekend, typical when I need some help. I am taking him in first thing in the morning to see Mark Evans and see if there is anything else that I can do to help him or relieve him at least. He doesnt look good bless him. Its just heartbreaking. He is 20 weeks old today. Happy 5mth birthday my little baby. But all I can do is keep going through the night and see how we go tomorrow. Michelle xx |
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Scarlett
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| 14-03-2010 02:06 PM |
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So sorry Joey is not doing so well.
I still wonder if something else is underlying here, but at the moment that isn`t significant.
Doing all you are doing is the best thing for him over the weekend and i really hope Mark can give you more positive news tomorrow.
I`ll be thinking about you, and you know where I am
Scarlett xx |
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Our Flock.......
Oliver-Greenwing Macaw
River and Diesel-Harlequin Macaws
Maxwell and Molly-Scarlet Macaws
Matilda and Dylan-Blue and Gold Macaws
Phoebe-Catalina Macaw
Harley and Lucas-Severe Macaws
www.scarlettsparrotessentials.co.uk |
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kerryh33
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Mandy
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| 14-03-2010 11:03 PM |
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Keeping fingers crossed the little one makes it through the night and to that vet appointment. pressure them hun, if they dont give you the answers wyou want - He's your bird and you have a right to question them if you feel he is still not right. xx |
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Scarlett
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| 15-03-2010 03:29 AM |
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I am posting this on behalf of Michelle who is far too upset to come on here at the moment.
It is with the greatest sadness I have to tell you Joey was put to sleep this morning.
His deterioration was very rapid and despite Michelles excellent best efforts over the past week, where she kept him comfortable and gave him a little extra time in his short life, they just could not save him.
As you can appreciate, this was a very difficult decision to make and one she talked through with the vets at length. There was nothing at all that could be done, every option was exhausted and there is a a huge hole in the life of the entire family.
Joey was a brave little boy whose life was stolen away at such a young age.
I think everyone will agree, and Michelle will know in her heart that the little time he did have was filled with so much love and care.
Joey will be sorely missed.
Scarlett |
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Our Flock.......
Oliver-Greenwing Macaw
River and Diesel-Harlequin Macaws
Maxwell and Molly-Scarlet Macaws
Matilda and Dylan-Blue and Gold Macaws
Phoebe-Catalina Macaw
Harley and Lucas-Severe Macaws
www.scarlettsparrotessentials.co.uk |
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Sheena
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| 15-03-2010 06:18 AM |
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Such very sad news. You did everything you could. Take care. |
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Victoria Whitfield
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| 15-03-2010 08:07 AM |
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I just don't know what to say. Tear filled eyes having just read this update. I'm so glad Joey found you Michelle and that in his far too short life he knew he was loved.
It was alwasy going to be so difficult with such a horrible disease in such a young baby. You did EVERYTHING you could and should feel proud that you nursed him so well.
There are never the right words but thinking of you and your family at this incredibly difficult time.
Vicky |
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